When the jazz singer and songwriter René Marie was approached about being the subject of a short film, she didn't know what to expect. Not only did the results surprise her, but the process also proved to be a form of therapy. René, as well as the film’s director Rachel Kessler and producer Polina Buchak, talked with me about the process of making Tuning René Marie, an animated film about Marie’s traumatic but inspiring early life.
You can watch a trailer of the film here:
On April 19, René will perform, followed by a screening of the film at the National Jazz Museum in Harlem. Following that, René and Rachel will join series host Larry Blumenfeld and other for a panel discussion about mental health, spiritual journeys and the power of song.
René will perform with her group Experiment in Truth at Dizzy’s Club at Jazz at Lincoln Center in NYC on April 20-23.
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Nicole Sweeney: Where did this film get started? Who put this little seed into the ground?
Rachel Kessler: René and I were both fellows at a program called AIR Serenbe. I was an independent fellow and René, I don't remember the exact name of your fellowship, but both of us were artists in residency. This program is in Georgia, 30 minutes south of Atlanta in a place called Serenbe. I was approached by them through this program called Filmer where you are asked to make a small film about the artists in residence.
I got the list of residents who were there. It was René's Tiny Desk concert that really got me. Personally as a filmmaker, I'm very interested in telling stories about women of a different generation than I am. I think it's unfortunately rare to see stories told about older women. Not to call you old, René.
René Marie: I am older. I accept it. It's a blessing.
Rachel Kessler: I'm a singer as well. I'm a musician so that mix of things and seeing the Tiny Desk concert, I saw it and I thought, “I want to know more about who this woman is.” We connected and now we have this film.
René, how did you feel when Rachel reached out to you? Were you taken aback?
René Marie: I didn't want to do it because I'm old. No, it was because my sister had passed away that year, in 2021. She had passed away just a few months before. I was so grateful that I actually got to spend a month at this retreat for artists. Some days not doing anything, just healing from having been her caretaker and just breathing. Then I had to go back home to look after my mother, who was 94 at the time. I was squeezed in between this time, so when they mentioned it to me near the end of the retreat, I was like, “Oh man, I don't want to have to do anything more.”
But then I talked to Rachel and she was so sweet, and she was a take charge person. I respected that. I was looking at how young she is and I thought, “Wow, this could be my granddaughter.” So I decided, I'm just going to go along with it. I couldn't say no to her. She was so enthusiastic about everything. I didn't see her vision either. I thought, “What is this going to be about?” I'm going to talk about where I grew up and blah, blah, blah. It's going to be corny. I'm sorry, Rachel, but that's the way I felt. I'm being totally honest.
I love it because I think that's a testament and a life lesson that we can all take with us every day. We have these expectations. They always say, the man above laughs at us when we make plans, because at the end of the day, he already knows what that end result is going to be. I appreciate your honesty.
René Marie: Another thing. This is just me not knowing how filmmaking works. When she introduced me, she says, “Oh, there's a camera person coming.” I said, “There's a camera person …oh, right, it’s a film”. She introduced me to Polina as the producer. I started to see, “Oh, this really is a thing.” It went on from there. I got my education slowly but surely at the hands of Rachel.
Did it take a lot to get used to? I watch a lot of reality TV and I always think, “I can do that—have a camera following me around while I’m doing regular stuff.” Did it take a lot to get used to, having a camera following you around and then documenting your life? Did it help that you’ve been on stage a lot?
René Marie: You know the thing was that I was in my hometown. I just remember walking around thinking, “Someone's going to ask me, ‘Are you on television?’” I find vanity very funny for some reason because you can see yourself. I'm trying not to look at myself, but then I'll be like, “Oh, my hair.”
Rachel Kessler: This is what I do, in my sleep sometimes. People will be like, “But how do you even make movies?” and I answer, “I don't know.” It's just what I do.
It’s just so beautifully made though. Was it hard being filmed like that?
René Marie: Yes, it was more emotional than I expected it would be. I really did look to Rachel for strength and support at that time because she could see what was going on, just reliving and talking about it. I wanted to help her do a good job. I wanted to support her too. I wanted the whole thing to be good but it was hard, allowing myself to be vulnerable.
It sounds like a lot went into it. Now what I find interesting is what you just said. We mentioned age not too long ago and, and how you had to kind of lean onto Rachel. Did you even think that would happen?
René Marie: How about that? We can lean on the younger folks, right? It's interesting how much we can learn from them. She was a huge source of strength. Seeing this determination in her and this vision that she had. I didn't quite understand it at first and I can't say that I do now fully, but I certainly have a great deal of respect for her and Polina and Alexa Wolf.
Rachel, talk to me about being a filmmaker and the vision you had. I felt so many emotions in those 13 minutes. I'll never forget that amount of time, give or take a minute or two, but it's just so meaningful to me. I think that that number 13 is a good thing in this.
Rachel Kessler: I guess it's important to know that the script for this was edited down from about six hours of interviews that we did together over the course of about five months or six months, René and I got on Zoom. This was pandemic time, people were at home, so we got on Zoom and we just talked. My friends joke that I always ask like the most uncomfortable probing questions, which I think makes for a good filmmaker. Day one, after speaking with René, I was just so struck by her voice. Which makes sense since she is a singer. She's a vocalist, but just the way that she was expressing herself to me felt so special. It needed to be the driving force of the film. I knew that no matter what else I did, her voice needed to be a part of it. As we talked and talked, I kind of sat with all of the material because there's a lot there. I mean, Renée has lived a life, to say the least.
As I sat with it, it was so visual in a way that animation would really do her story justice. I remember when she spoke about her father dressing up like an African hunter. I just saw the little animation of an African hunter. From there, it grew. I never go into a film knowing what I'm going to do. I try to let the work speak to me and reveal itself to me. I feel as much of a vessel as a person in charge. I don't really feel like I am the vision so much as the translator.
I love that I use that word vessel all the time. I think that's my purpose in music and in jazz music is carrying and helping people to tell their stories. I definitely relate to you in that. It’s interesting that you used animation not only because there's talk of Renée being a child, but because there's parts that are dark with little bits of light. Out of the darkness, and then there's light with little bits of dark.
It's interesting to go back to being a child and pulling pieces of your life and connecting it to why you are the adult you are today. It can be very hard. I found myself really connecting to that. I have my box of tissues still sitting over there from watching that. René, you mentioned that a little bit earlier about how deep it really got for you. I cannot imagine talking about those parts.
René Marie: Are you saying that you were really touched by the animation, or that the animation made things lighter for you?
I don't know if it made things lighter. It almost connected certain dots for me. I'm the parent of a five-year-old, so I watch cartoons more than I do reality TV. Sometimes I just want to be an adult again. But I found myself connecting still and being an adult through the animation.
René Marie: I ask that because, having lived these things I was telling Rachel there's some distancing that goes on. You distance yourself from what happened back then. When she sent me the edited part that included the animation, I just broke down into tears because for the first time it was as though I was stepping back and watching myself. I don't think she realized—well, maybe you did, Rachel—just how accurately it captured things. Even though it was animation and not real people in there. I don't think I have the words, but like I said, I just broke down into tears.
It's extremely powerful. The animation does not take away from it at all. It doesn't make it childlike. It doesn't make it cartoonish. I've never really even seen animation connect to a story that way that can bring tears to your eyes.
Like, do you cry to a cartoon? It's something very different. Again, powerful is the word that I would use, because René, I feel like I know you, I know your music but wow. What I love about this is that there's so many people who have your story, right? I love this person. A child loves their dad, a child loves their mom, even though they might not be perfect.
René Marie: Right, it's the only family you got.
Polina, I don't mean to leave you out. I know you're still here with us. Talk to me about what you want to see happen with a film like this. It's safe to call it a film to me because I feel like what you gain in a two-hour film you gain just watching this in the shorter amount of time.
Polina Buchak: I have appreciation for jazz music, but never really knew in depth about artists and everything. After listening to Rachel's first cut of her interview that she put into a timeline, and from that point on, there's so many different life lessons that each audience can take away with. It's a story about passion for what you do and for what speaks truly to yourself.
It is a story about incredible resilience and inner strength, and it's a story about forgiveness. There's lots of different parts of these lessons that I also took away from myself after going through production on this movie. And I just know that it will speak to universal audiences.
That's our goal is to help share René's story far and wide with everyone because there's so much that we can use to reflect on our lives. There's a lot of that I reflected on in my personal life and my personal connections to my family members. I'm eternally grateful. I'm so blessed to know this wonderful person, René Marie.
Whatever we can do to help amplify her story. For example, it's interesting to see how people stumble upon the story. There are people who obviously come in who know her music, but may not have known her personal life as in-depth as the story tells. Then there's audiences who watch this movie and they're like, “Whoa, this is amazing. I’ve got to listen to the music” because we also use her songs in the film. It's just seeing those little connections while watching our audiences interact with the film is really exciting. It's a great addition to this amazing music that talks about such vulnerable and personal topics and hears where the story comes from. It's a great companion to both.
René, you might take my job because your speaking voice just draws you in, as does your singing. Only you can tell your story using your speaking and singing voice in that way.
René Marie: I guess. When you live the story… you live the story. You're not really seeing it as a story, it's just what you had to do and what happened. The mistakes you made and the ones you're trying not to make again.
I want to point this out. What I love about you is that you started this chapter of music in your life a little later on. I'm on social media a lot and there are always these tweets about “Oh, 40 what are you doing to do?” They make you feel like 40 is when you start to go down, when you know there's so many people starting this new chapter of life. Now look, I'm asleep by about 10 pm. That's not because I'm 40. René just brings this new energy to all of us in this new chapter of her life that started after a whole another career.
René Marie: Well, if it hadn’t been for my son, I would not have done it. He was the one that said, “You're not too old.” And I said, “Yes, I am.” He says, “No, you're not.”
Out of the mouth of babes.
When other people believe in you, then you’ve got to ask yourself, “Well, is what they're saying true? And is it just me stopping it?” Let me see what happens. You have to be okay with, I won't call it failing, but you have to be okay with it not turning out the way you expect. You’ve got to be cool with that, and you have to be cool with however it turns out. It was an adventure, it was fun, or I learned something.
Listen to the kids, much more than we give them credit for because we can learn from different generations. It seems to be a theme here, and I'm so glad. I use Pharaoh Sanders’ “The creator has a master plan” just about every other day because I do believe that we make plans and then he or she already has the master plan created. This piece is so beautiful that there is a reason behind this. I think Polina touched on it. Your story is here to touch so many different people. Did you know that though, René? Are you someone that's like, “Look, I have a story to tell.” I feel like there's a part of you that still doesn't really understand how beautiful this story is and how it's going to really affect so many walks of life. I feel like you're so humble.
René Marie: I have what I call my emotional equation—pain plus wisdom equals beauty. That is how I look at my path or my life and everybody else's. Yes, we're going to have pain, but if we use the wisdom that is at our disposal, at our own personal wisdom that's at our disposal, it's going to result in something beautiful. I really do believe that, and I believe it not just for myself, but I hope to see it and practice it when I'm dealing with other people that pain plus wisdom equals beauty. I also finally have come to accept, and this is in the past two years, that not only is music a healer, but those who make music, those of us who write, sing, compose—we are also healers. Not just of those who listen to us, but we are double healed because it comes out of us into someone else and that comes back to us.
It's this beautiful cycle of learning and life and healing that I feel so lucky to be a part of this circle since it can be taken away at any time. It's not something that I expect to keep until my last breath is drawn, but I realize it can be taken away. I want to make sure I keep that cycle going as much as I can and avail myself of live music, recorded music, reading about musicians’ stories in their biographies or autobiographies. Just filling myself up because that healing path or cycle is so very important.
Rachel Kessler: I love that you said that, because that was something that was a theme that I really tried to bring back over and again in the film. That at every turn, and this was just something I realized, sitting with these six hours of interviews that we had listening to the audio, I noticed that at every turn, music was this saving grace in your life. Your father being abusive and your mother buys a piano. You turn to it for healing in your teen years. Then eventually end up leaving your own abusive relationship because you started singing. It's not easy to be a working artist. Maybe it never has been. It's definitely not now.
It was just such a reminder of how important art is, and music and all of these things, in healing us and keeping us sane. Bringing out the best sides of who we are as human beings. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you would have been able to leave some very dangerous situations if it hadn't been for music, which is amazing.
René Marie: I hadn't even made that connection about my mom getting the piano and my dad being abusive to her and me wanting to sing and my husband being abusive. I had not even made that connection, Rachel, until you said it. And I almost wanted to say, “No, that's not…” Oh.
