I recently chatted with the pleasantly energetic trumpeter, composer and storyteller Etienne Charles and the ever-inventive vocalist René Marie—truly delightful! They spoke about their friendship and their mutual respect and love for each other's musical careers. One can hear the love in their collaboration. Their energy was perfectly matched by their passion for their forthcoming collaboration on Charles' new album, Creole Orchestra, where Etienne leads a vibrant 22-piece ensemble. René Marie graces four of the album's thirteen tracks. Their collaboration rekindles the magic from Marie's 2013 album I Wanna Be Evil, where Charles' arrangement brought Eartha Kitt's signature song to life.
Creole Orchestra is an exploration of Caribbean grooves, drawing on Charles’ rich musical heritage from Trinidad & Tobago. With the synergy between Charles' intricate arrangements and Marie's captivating vocals, it's easy to imagine how their long-standing friendship infuses the music with an extra layer of depth and emotion. Due for release on June 14, 2024, on Etienne’s label, Culture Shock Records, Creole Orchestra marks his debut as a big band arranger.
Listen to our conversation, above.
Interview transcript:
Lezlie Harrison: Etienne, you hail from Port of Spain, the capital of Trinidad and Tobago, known for its huge carnivals with calypso and Caribbean soca music. And Rene, you hail from Warrenton, Virginia. That's in the Piedmont of the Blue Ridge Mountains and is known for its wineries and horses and views. You both have a fantastic creative chemistry. How did you first meet and what initially drew you to one another musically, coming from these different places in your life?
René Marie: We kind of disagreed a little bit on how we first met, but I think Etienne's story is the correct one.
Well, let's hear it. Go ahead, Etienne.
Etienne Charles: I went to Florida State University and in my junior year there was this jazz festival that they decided to do on a plantation. It was called the Midtown Jazz Festival. I was playing in a group led by Leon Anderson, the drummer who was the director of jazz studies at Florida State University. In addition to Leon Anderson, the band included Rodney Jordan playing bass, Kevin Bales on piano, Farid Malouly on saxophone, and myself on trumpet. Leon said, “We're going to bring in a special guest vocalist for the show. Her name is Rene Marie.”
The rehearsal was in the morning on the day of the show and she had driven from Atlanta. It was around 2005. There was Leon’s quintet with Rene and then Mulgrew Miller's Trio with Karriem Riggins on drums and Derek John Bees. Rene pulled up to the rehearsal and she's like, “We’re going to do ‘Strange Fruit’ y'all.” I don't know if you’ve ever driven from Atlanta to Tallahassee, but that road- 319 South - you go through that part of the country and you see the trees. She said we were going to play “Strange Fruit” and we did. It was an amazing show. I was drawn to her voice from then. I don't know what drew her to me.
What was it, Rene? What was that which drew you to Etienne?
René Marie: His playing was so organic out of his soul. You could tell he had all the knowledge, theory, etc., but it was what he did with it that just blew me away. Also, Etienne is very laid back. I like his energy. There's no worries. No drama. We'll get it done. It's going to be fine. It's going to sound good, and let's just have some fun. Then he puts the trumpet to his mouth and you're in another world with Etienne.
So that was the beginning of a beautiful musical relationship. You’ve worked together before in terms of engagements?
Rene Marie: Yes, we have done other engagements before. The Eartha Kitt project called I Wanna Be Evil where Etienne did the horn arrangements was so awesome. I came to, not Florida State, but Miami where his big band at the school did some of my original tunes and that's always fun. I had a really good time. That was where we came up with the idea about this next project we're working on.
There's a wonderful and fascinating history of the big band influence in the Caribbean, which stems from the U.S. naval bases that were in Trinidad during World War II. Out of that came the first Trinidadian radio station which played American big band music. Is this Radio Trinidad?
Etienne Charles: Well, Radio Trinidad started around the same time, but the U.S. radio station, which was the radio station that was broadcast from Fort Reid. The U.S. had to their Camp Waller in the east of Fort Reid in the west where they broadcast from. It was from the U.S. radio station where they would blast Glenn Miller. They would blast all the big band music that was playing in the 40s and that became some of the first music played on the airwaves in Trinidad.
Immediately, people started forming big bands to play this music. There was a whole industry of entertaining the U.S. soldiers with bands getting hired to come and play on the base. Some of them were groups who would play swing or play big band music. Then you started to hear this mix of the two specifically a little bit later on in the late 40s, early 50s. You start hearing it on calypso recordings. You start hearing these very broad, almost majestic horn introductions to calypsos, that used to be just the horns playing the chorus. Then they started embellishing on that.
It's clearly an influence from some of the arrangers that were happening in the big band era. I know for a fact that Rupert Nurse, who was Kitchener's arranger, took an arranging course, one of Glenn Miller's arrangements course by mail order. He would literally mail it and get the answers back.
Where were you first introduced to this music, jazz or swing? I know calypso was part of your Caribbean roots.
Etienne Charles: That’s the interesting thing, right? You hear it in one thing and then you hear it in another thing and that tells you what it is, but it's the same thing. It's like if I were to meet Rene's cousins, it's different, but it's the same vibe. It's the same thing with that music. I've been hearing it in and out of calypso music from very early on. But my first introduction to jazz was when I was about 13 or 14. I was listening to somebody play some boogie-woogie on the trumpet and I was like, “Whoa, wait, what? You can do that?” It opened a whole new world to me about possibilities with an instrument and improvisation.
I was in a big band when I was at Berklee's five-week summer program and I was like, “Wow, this is so much fun.” I've been in bands with horn sections before with five or six horns. But to be in a band with 13 horns or 12 horns, that's a different beast and I've been hooked ever since.
What initially sparked the idea for your new recording of the Creole Orchestra project. Was there a specific sound or an artist that you wanted to evoke?
Etienne Charles: That's a great question. I started writing for big band in 2011. Dana Hall commissioned me to write some big band arrangements of my music for the Chicago Jazz Ensemble. There was a representative from Jazz Artists of Charleston who then commissioned me to write a piece for the Charleston Jazz Orchestra, an original composition. All of those arrangements are on Creole Orchestra. Then with Rene Marie, we had done I Want to Be Evil and the album was very successful and she was doing a lot with it. She started getting calls for her to do the Eartha Kitt stuff with a big band. She called and said she needed a big band and those arrangements are on the album. As you see, it's almost like a resume in the sense of some of my earliest big band arrangements.
In terms of who I'm trying to evoke, Duke Ellington and Billy Strayhorn are the masters for me. Duke Ellington for rhythm, because his abilities with rhythm are second to none. For his abilities with brass, I love Thad Jones. I'm a huge fan of my mentor, Frank Foster. I used to play in his big band. Frank Foster is a big influence. Quincy Jones is a big influence. Also, the Calypso Rangers, like Rupert Nurse and Frankie Francis. Johnny Mandel is a huge influence on me who wrote some incredible stuff for Shirley Horn. Then trying to tackle and mix that all into what I want it to be for me, that was the fun part of writing this album as well as choosing tunes that people could relate to or not relate to as well.
Rene, how did Etienne’s arrangements complement or challenge your vocal approach on the album?
René Marie: I can't say I ever felt challenged except in the way of wanting to live up to the musical roadway that he paved for me because these arrangements are amazing. I've never met anybody who can arrange the way Etienne arranges, and it just suits my personality and what I'm hearing at the same time.
Then there's a lot of respect that he afforded me. I was ready to just come in and do whatever he would say. But he was also very generous with all I wanted to do. I just wanted to live up to what he was trying to do. I also had a lot of fun. Plus, recording before a live audience.
You recorded in front of a live audience?
Etienne Charles: We played two shows the night before we went into the studio.
Etienne, as an arranger, how did Rene's voice and her musicality influence how you wrote for the orchestra and how you write for vocalists or for Rene specifically?
Etienne Charles: Lezlie, I'm very lucky. As I say, in many ways, I never had to scratch a note for Rene. I knew her inside out as a person. I had known her for years—almost 10 years. I had seen her perform with her group at least 20-some times because every time she came through Dizzy's, I would go. I was like a groupie. I was in school. I would go because Quentin Baxter is a friend of mine and Rodney Jordan was my teacher and Kevin Bales. Every time they played, whether it was at Jazz Standard for a week or they would play Dizzy's for a week, I would always go.
René Marie: You would sit in with us as much as we could, like, “You here, you’re going to play.”
Etienne Charles: I remember once you all had just got back from Russia or some distant place and you were tired. You were like, “You go out there and play the first song” and I was like, “Okay.” I could tell they were just like road warriors. As a result, for me, I was naturally able to study what to complement. I had a lot of chances to listen and learn because a singer sings a certain way on a record and then it evolves a certain way and when you hear them sing in live settings, right? But I was lucky enough because I was able to know her recordings, but then also see how she susses it out, like when she did “Voice of My Beautiful Country.” When she plays “Freudian Slip,” you go down the list of all these great records.
I was able to hear the record right as it came out and then see the band tour it. As you talk about how my arrangements could go this way and then go that way is what I picked up from watching her play. She would go here and then she would go and then you add her channeling Eartha Kitt to that, it takes it to another level. I get to throw these little Broadway things so for me, that's what I mean when I say, “It’s luck.”
I was able to study long before getting engaged in the task of writing. She always puts the blues in my mission so for me, that always has to be in the music, period. That's like a natural unit, but then, I never knew how much she had an affinity for Caribbean music so that's naturally in my music too. There are all these similarities that for me, it comes out more in what I do with her original music than what I do with her interpretation of other tunes, but definitely on her original tunes.
Rene, you are a wonderful re-interpreter of the classic standards and you've done that throughout your career. How do you approach these songs and how do you make them your own? I know that's pretty broad, but you are very unique in how you deliver and wrap yourself around the song.
René Marie: It's more like the first time I hear the song. It's got to touch me or move me in some kind of way, either with the lyrics or the music or the rhythm. If it doesn't, I've learned to leave those alone and let somebody else do that. The thing about my approach to the music is I need to just be completely honest and be myself.
That's another way I can eliminate certain songs from the repertoire, but with Etienne, like he said, he knows me musically. I think I know him musically. I'm still learning all the wonderful things that he knows and things that he can play and compose. But the fact that we know each other goes a long, long way. We're friends, and it makes a difference. I'm not comparing myself to Ella, but there's a certain way Ella sings with the Duke Ellington Orchestra that she does not sing like that with anybody else and it feels that way when I'm playing with Etienne. The connection that we have musically, that can't even be put into words.
That's beautiful. Let's talk a little bit about the record. Etienne, you're smiling from ear to ear as you should be. I saw some socks earlier, your merch from your new record, so let's talk a little bit about the record. I have roots in the Dutch Caribbean and I am already thinking about some family members who are not really into jazz or big band, but they love soca. They love reggae. They love hip hop. I'm sure they can swing to the Creole Orchestra because it goes from Monty Alexander's “Think Twice” to “Poison” by Bell Biv DeVoe. That's my favorite cut on the album. That was the first thing I wanted to listen to. How did you come about putting all these different types of genres of music together into the big band?
Etienne Charles: First, which island in the Dutch Caribbean is it?
Yes, Saba. I go there often.
Etienne Charles: I wanted to do a big band album that was kind of like if I was a DJ in front of a big band, as opposed to playing in front of a big band. Specifically, if I was a DJ at a party in front of a big band. When you're at a party and people are dancing, there are too many of the same type of song. People leave the dance floor. You stop grooving. People leave the dance floor. I’m thinking, “What is it that is going to keep people?” I designed the album for the way people listen to a CD or LP. I taught at Michigan State for 12 years and we had this swing dance every April as a part of this thing called Jazz Spectacular.
It was the opening concert of this weekend festival and I'm one of the arrangers. There were two bands on the bill. The other band was led by Professor Rodney Whitaker. Back then there's competition between bands on a dance floor. I'm like, “All right, what tune can we do that's going to make people be like, ‘Whoa.’” Every time we had the swing dance, I would have the band practice real soft so nobody could hear it, “Yo, put your mutes in.”
Anyway, we dropped “Poison” and everybody started doing the running man and I was like, “Yeah!” It’s one of the first American songs I remember hearing. My cousin, Kelly, who lived in Maryland, used to come down when her parents would send her to the Caribbean because if you have family away, they'd just send their kids down for the whole summer. She had this Walkman. I had never seen a Walkman before. It wasn't the one with headphones. It had a little tiny speaker on it. It was like this big. And she put that tip in and it was like, back, back, back, back, back, back, back. I decided, “Let me see what this can sound like with a big band.”
This conversation has been edited for brevity and clarity.
