Let me ask you a question? What is it that first attracts us to music? The voice. We all have one, so the connection is immediate. For me it was the great artists and groups of the ‘60s. But my focus was on the back-up singers. The ahhhs and oohs, or the directives displayed in catchy harmonies. From those singers I learned how to act. How to carry my young teenage self. “See the way he walks down the street, watch the way he shuffles his feet…” Carhops at my Dad’s drive-ins helped with that last part. Everything needed to get that one special girl. One of those special girls joins me today to talk about those feelings imparted in two, three or four-part harmony. But she’s no reader, Jack! She’s the leader of the pack! It’s Darlene Love, who brings her holiday show to The Town Hall on November 30.
If you’ve never been to that show, you’re missing out, because it's not just Christmas songs. It's a life thread that goes all the way back to Dolores Ferguson's wedding in 1957, when Dolores says, “I got somebody I want you to meet.” Yes, because Darlene was singing at her wedding. And sitting at the table were Gloria Jones and Fenita Barrett. What would become of that introduction was one of the all-time great singing groups ever. You know them as The Blossoms. Some people know them as The Crystals. But we know Darlene Love, don't we? Please enjoy my lovely conversation with the marvelous Darlene Love.
Listen to our conversation, above.
Interview transcript:
Gary Walker: Let's go back to those early years with Gloria and Fenita and what was commonly referred to as the Brill Building West. Tell me about 3555 Selma.
Darlene Love: Yes, when we talk about how long ago that was, that was my last year in high school. It was fun then. We actually got paid to have fun. Never even thinking that we would be around 60 years later, and that one of the songs I recorded with Phil Spector would still be as big, if not bigger, than it was when we recorded the record. I think it was fun for us because we were all young, just graduating from high school and going to Hollywood every day to rehearse.
The guy that was responsible for this was a guy named Eddie Bill. He was an arranger in Hollywood. One of the producers from Capitol Records asked him if he knew some singers that could do background. He just said “Yes,” and I'm going, “Yes? Really? We can sing background behind somebody?” It was great learning, especially coming from church and singing in choirs in the church. I learned how to sing my part.
Daddy was a fired brimstone preacher. I heard you say you could sit in the front row and you could feel the sweat. But here you are three ladies, all individual voices, but coming together as one. I want to ask you how difficult that is, but you're talking about your first recording session with James Darren, your second recording session with legendary Sam Cooke. What was that like recording with Sam?
[Darlene sings] That's the sound of the men working on the chain game. Yes, and everybody loves the cha cha cha. Hey, everybody loves the cha cha cha.
Who knew that those songs were going to be great? I knew Sam from the church because he was singing gospel music at the time that I met him. When he switched over, I mean, we just fell more in love with him as he was recording. Just to be on those two songs and then they were big hit records, and that was during the time when they didn't know who the background singers were, they just some singers in the background, as you said, twenty feet from stardom.
But you could feel it. And many times, as I said, that's where the message came from. My father had those drive-in restaurants and the jukebox was going all the time. I knew how to get to the master and play my favorite songs for free, but we're talking 1962, 1963. Those were the heydays for background singers and the girl groups and everything else that was going on that would lead you to tour the world with some of the biggest names in this business.
It's amazing just to be in the studio with these people, but then to go out on the road with them, that was a whole other ball game and traveling around the world.
Who are some of the people you got a chance to tour with?
Well, I got a chance to tour with Tom Jones and Elvis Presley, Nancy and Frank Sinatra, Dionne Warwick. During that time there were no bigger stars than them and we didn't even think about that they were big stars. I mean, we did, but until you go out and be around them, and their fans, then you go, “Wow, we really are out here with these people.”
Those were heydays indeed, but it all is part of a sense memory this lady right here was also part of. If you remember Bobby “Boris” Pickett and “The Monster Mash,” she was there for that date and so many others, like The Beach Boys’ wonderful tune “In My Room.” Darlene Love was in that room as well, working with Brian Wilson.
Yes, we did a lot of those sessions. We weren't trying to change their sound or do anything like that. We just blended in with their voices, that was the unique part of The Blossoms. We could blend in with their sound and you would never really know we were there. That was the whole idea - to make the sound fuller. But to be able to sing with The Beach Boys and sing that song, which still is a masterpiece for me in, “In My Room.” It's one of the greatest songs I think they ever recorded.
You were in one of the most famous rooms ever in the recording industry - for the pluses and the minuses - the Gold Star Studios that Phil Spector ran. You had the opportunity to record and work indefatigably to make music happen. We're talking about musicians such as The Wrecking Crew. We're talking about backup singers as well, such as a little known Sonny Bono and his girlfriend, Cherilyn Sarkisian, who would later become just Cher. Your relationship with Cher would continue over many, many decades. In fact, the night before this concert at Town Hall in New York City, the two of you are going to reunite at the Rockefeller Christmas Tree Lighting Ceremony.
What a surprise, because a lot of people I'm sure don't really know that Cher actually sung background on “Christmas (Baby Please Come Home).” So we were laughing. We have actually come full circle because Warner Brothers wanted her to do a Christmas album which she had never done before. And she went, I don’t want to do another Christmas song. Instead she said, “Well, I'm going to call Darlene and see if we can duet 'Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)' and then I'll do it." That's what we did. I never saw her. I went to the studio here in New York and she went into the studio in California. They can do those crazy things now. You could be on the moon and record a song and y'all can get it together. The magic that came out with both of us singing this song together, it was unbelievable.
It's something that you've carried with you for 60 years.
Yes, and the wonderful thing about Cher and I, even though we don't see one another all the time or talk on the phone, if we're in the same town and we run into one another, it's like we just pick up from where we left off. When we were on Broadway doing Leader of the Pack, she came to that show. Of course, “Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)” was in that show. We just go back to reminiscing where it all started. When I think about the musicians who were on that like Leon Russell, it's just amazing all the people who were in in that group.
We've all read the stories about Phil Spector. You were there for those stories. You were one of the few people that stood up to that man and his wig, and never took anything from him in terms of guff, but he took things from you such as not giving you credit for the song that you sang on which was credited to The Crystals. Talk about that.
The first song, “He's a Rebel,” I knew was going to be credited to The Crystals. That was the problem. Phil was in New York recording the group, The Crystals, but they were very young. They were 13, 14, 15 years old when they did their first couple of recordings. When Phil decided to come to California to record “He's a Rebel,” they couldn't come. Their parents would not let them come because they said they were too young.
So Phil hired me and The Blossoms, and we went into the studio and recorded “He's a Rebel.” The problem was after that, when he would record me and then say, “This is going be your first record.” Then I find out later, it was still under the name of The Crystals. Like, for instance, “Da Do Ron Ron,” and “He's Sure the Boy I Love.” These were the biggest records The Crystals had, but they were recorded by me and The Blossoms. It was unfortunate. I had a hard time pulling out of that situation to become a single artist.
Then when you thought it was all going to break your way, I find it curious to note that the very last recording session that you did with Phil Spector was a tune called “Long Way to Be Happy.” Then things were looking up because, here comes Gamble and Huff [of Philadelphia International].
I’d always wanted to be with Gamble and Huff because I knew they were record hit makers. I loved all the people that they had on their label. Those are some of my favorite artists, not even counting Motown. But my heart was with Gamble and Huff because I just love those records. All of those records today by all of those guys that were on that label and they didn't have a lady, so I figured this is my chance. I won't be with a bunch of guys. I got it made. Until I was there. It gets really, really fuzzy because being there in Philadelphia was a whole other world, away from California. I was around all those great people who were writing great music and great lyrics, great songs and then to get this call saying, “You need to come into the office, we need to speak to you.”
It's a great movie and they said, “Well, we're going to have to let you go because we just signed your contract over to Phil Spector.” I was shocked. I really didn't know what to say. I went “Really?” Then I find out later that our lawyer and their lawyer was the same guy. So they just twisted and twisted and turned things around and I was back with Phil again. I was very unhappy about that.
I guess you would be very unhappy with that. We're talking with Darlene Love who has a big show coming on November the 30th at Town Hall in New York City, Love for the Holidays. And yes, it's “Christmas (Baby Please Come Home),” but it's also a musical sense memory of what we're talking about here today. We don't have time to talk about everything. But when you talk about Phil Spector and the Wall of Sound, for example, one of the first things I ever think of is the Righteous Brothers.
Yeah, that was another big one, too, because The Blossoms had done quite a few background sessions for the Righteous Brothers before they became gigantic stars. We were in the studio with “Coco Jo” and all of those fun, fun songs that the Righteous Brothers started out doing. We all started doing Shindig, the television show in 1964 and 1965, and the Righteous Brothers were on that show. Then we get this call. Phil is getting ready to record the Righteous Brothers, and they wanted The Blossoms for the background. So here we go again.
I'm thinking of your persistence here, which probably came from Mom and Dad. Your persistence and the fact that all the time this is going on you're a mother raising children.
Yes. I have three brothers and a sister and both my parents were working. My father was a preacher and a pastor and my mother worked at a school as a secretary. So it was a lot going on in our lives. It was never boring, that's for sure.
Now people today know the voice of Darlene Love as a standout voice, as the soloist, as the person who's right up there at the front of the stage. You're singing with a vocal group, The Blossoms, Bob B. Soxx and the Blue Jeans. The other incarnations way back when, where the intention and the work was put into all sounding the same. How did you, over the years, hang on to that individualistic Darlene Love voice? By the way, if you've never seen Twenty Feet From Stardom, all of them, from Merry Clayton and Claudia Lanier and everybody else, points toward this lady we're talking to today as their inspiration. But how did you maintain that individualistic voice?
I grew up with this, believing in God who is my savior. I just adore him because he opens doors for me that I could not open for myself. He uses somebody to do it. You know what I'm saying? Even though I was pushed aside by Phil, a lot of people don't even realize that Phil stuck with my career all these years, all the way up to The David Letterman show, fighting against me trying to move away from him and from The Crystals.
After I left The Blossoms, I really did not want to be with a girl group anymore. I had enough problems with The Blossoms and what we were all going through. I certainly didn't want to be with another girl group, especially somebody as young as The Crystals. I was like 18, 19 years old. They were 12, 13 and 14. I couldn't hang with them. It was my determination. I knew I had a gift that I wanted to use away from the girl groups. But Phil intermingled us so bad that you couldn't tell who was who. Because we had The Crystals, The Ronettes, the Bob B. Soxx and the Blue Jeans, Darlene Love, The Blossoms, and I was the lead singer for Bob B. Soxx and the Blue Jeans, a couple of records with The Crystals, and then Darlene Love. So, when I finally did move to New York, as I always tell this story about Stevie Van Zant, he moved me to New York.
He told me that story the other day. Stevie and I are good friends, and I said, “I'm getting ready to chat with Darlene, man.” And he told me about the night that he and Bruce and Lou Adler, who said, “You got to come to the Roxy because Darlene's doing her show tonight.” And that was all it took. And Stevie goes, “Darlene. You have got to come to New York,” but along the way, that search would find its way in movies. For those of you that are Lethal Weapon fans, this lady was married to Danny Glover.
Yes, in the movie, don't get it twisted.
As you talk about your life and you talk about the sense memory of all these groups and all these occasions. These kinds of things stay with you. And these are the kinds of things that inform what people can expect to feel themselves on November 30th at Town Hall in New York city. Love for the Holidays. Yes, it is holiday music, but it's so much more. I remember seeing you out in Jersey some years back. It was your holiday show and you told this beautiful story about your dear friend, Marvin Gaye.
Yes, that's another name that I hate the fact that people and kids today are growing up and will never get to hear his voice or get to see him. There is one song that is so relative today with all of us that came up with Marvin, “What's Going On.” I mean, you could write that for right now. Because what the heck is going on? And he recorded that 60 years ago. I met him through Shindig, the television show. Then we ended up on the road together. Bob B. Soxx and the Blue Jeans were on the road and Marvin was on that bill. Back in the ‘60s, we all ended up doing shows where there were five or six acts on the show. We're doing this show in New York and we became friends because, I said, “Where's your background singers?” He'd go, “Oh, I can't afford background singers.”
I said, “We'll do your background for you.” So, we stood backstage on a mic and did his background for “Hitchhike” and “Stubborn Kind of Fella.” Those songs were so much fun. But nobody knows that unless you come and see a live show. Recording is one thing, but a live show is nothing like it. Because you interpret your songs one way on record, but you interpret them another way when you do them live.
We're talking about hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, probably thousands of recording sessions that you were an integral part of, and it's that kind of sense memory that pops up and into your show on November 30. Sometimes, that takes on a personal note. Like when Darlene spent time as she describes it, “I was a maid with a Mercedes.”
You do what you have to do if you have a vision. If it's buried deep down in you, you have to do what you have to do to stay afloat. They wouldn't hire me anymore because the same producers were gone by the time I decided to come back and do background again. And everything had changed so. I was tired of being on the road as a background singer because it becomes a whole different ballgame with your life. Fighting all the things that I had to fight, and then find another world in New York City. To me, it's still amazing that that happened, because I didn't really know anybody in New York City.
I had just met Bruce Springsteen and Stevie Van Zandt. The whole idea to come here was because they wanted me to come here. They said, “Well, we'll get you a job.” I said, “Well, okay.” And that started it. I’ve been here for almost, next year will be 40 years now that I've been living in New York. It's crazy.
This explains why this backup singer with a foreground attitude is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, folks. Coming up on the 30th she's going to share these sense memories with you at Town Hall. I have to ask you about this night, about the backup singers, Milton Vann and Keisha Gumbs and Diamond White. How did you come to select them and what's their story?
My great background started in church, right? Milton Vann is a minister. He's a preacher. He actually is a pastor and the girls came from church background. They still go to their churches and sing when they can and sing in the choirs. So that's how I came about getting this group of singers with me, which is amazing because they make me sing real hard. We talk about Aretha Franklin and Cissy Houston, who came from a gospel background, they work hard. They don't just pitty pat and sing cute little songs. No, they’re gut songs.
In my opening, I referenced, “This ain't no reader, Jack.” When Darlene Love came on the scene, the readers were the background singers. Explain what a reader is to somebody that doesn't know.
God blessed us with wonderful ears. We learned how to sing background in church, in choirs. When we started singing background, we almost took over the background industry. Not because that's what we were trying to do, but everybody wanted us to be on their records.
In the meantime, we all had to be in AFTRA. Everybody had to be in that union. Most of the people who were in that union then were white singers. They had very pretty, pretty harmony, like the McGuire Sisters (think “Mr. Sandman”).
We came along with more of a gospel sound, but also, we could change our sound to go with whatever, like “Monster Mash.” We sang in movies with Doris Day, like Move Over, Darling. We could sing with anybody and readers were not known to do that. They even tried to talk us into learning how to read. I said, “Honey, if it's going to give us no more work, I ain't going to learn nothing. We got enough work. Let us stay where we are.”
Now this is a lady that could sing “Monster Mash.” You could you sing the “Shoop Shoop” song with Betty Everett, but could also sing “Johnny Angel,” with Shelley Favre. This is the music that I grew up with. These are the tunes that were all on the jukeboxes in my dad's drive-in restaurants. For every one of those, there was a Darlene Love tune. There was the Orlons’ “Meet Me on South Street.”
Those are the kinds of things that Darlene Love brings to a performance each and every night. Your opportunity to enjoy such a night is coming on November the 30th at Town Hall in New York City. Lighten it up with a high voltage Christmas show titled, Love for the Holidays. Any surprises you can share?
That title kind of stuck with me after I started doing The David Letterman show. Singing that one song, “Christmas (Baby Please Come Home),” for 28 years. David started that saying, “Love for the Holidays.” So it kind of stuck with me through the whole thing. I never changed that title. It's just Love for the Holidays.
How many years were you on The Letterman Show?
28 years. I think I have the record. Well, I know I have the record as an artist. We started on NBC and went to CBS. I got right with them as they were making that big change also and today, Paul Shaffer and I are still very good friends.
Oh, I'll bet. And it's because of your ability as a background singer that somebody like Bobby Darin could do a Ray Charles dedication.
I'm a huge Bobby Darin fan and the world took him from us way too soon, but he had it inside of him. But I think it was his background singers that made Dance Salute to Ray Charles something really special. He did such a fantastic job. That's what you call it when you love something, when you love other music, you can do it. You can do it from your heart because it feels good. And that's what Bobby did. “Splish Splash. “
Wasn't the flip side of that tune was his rendition of “Swanee River,” I think. It was something totally different.
Strange, right? Completely different, right? That just goes to show you how versatile you can be and love it. It's like Ray Charles singing country western. It wasn't country western, but it was Ray Charles's country western.
Absolutely. And opened the door for people like Charlie Pride, too. No slouch either. You're talking about versatility, but this is the same lady who sang backup with Gene Autry on “A Way Back When.”
I think if you had a record out and you wanted background, we were on it.
What would you like to do that you haven't been able to do yet?
Well, you know what, Gary? I have been so blessed. I have hit everything. I have done my bucket list. I have to give all the credit to God because I never knew within myself I had that. But God knew. And he put me on all the right places at the right time. I mean, even with the movies. I was just doing my show and the casting director asked me after the show was over one night, “Would you like to be in a movie?” That just doesn’t happen. You know what I'm saying? You have to audition. You have to go through the ropes to get those kind of things.
Four of the greatest movies ever made. They're still playing those movies like they just made them last week. Then some of the songs I recorded, some of the greatest songs ever recorded, back in those days and people go back. What's so great about those songs and that music, people go back to get them.
I'm 74, and do you ever think that the music of today is going to really have a sense memory to it? It seems so throw away, and now they're talking about AI and driverless cars. I mean, whose idea was that? Come on, man.
My husband said the other day, “I’m not getting in no car that don't drive, that drives itself.” I said, “I'm with you. I don't want to be in no car where nobody is driving.”
The recording process is the same for somebody like you. I mean, you come and you bring something to it. For the movies, I think Lethal Weapon, you really didn't have a script. They just said, “Go be Danny's wife and kind of respond to things the way you think Danny's wife might respond to them.” I think that would be an impossibility for a non-musician.
Yes, the thing about it is they did not want a Black actress that was in Hollywood doing all the movies - the go to girl, you know what I'm saying? Dick Donner, who was the director said, “If you can do what you do on stage, you can do that in movies.” I said, “Thank you.”
I'm so sad because I think that you've already found the boy you're going to marry.
Yes. It will be 40 years next year.
Oh, God bless. That is just amazing. And Stevie sends his love. I exchanged a note with him this morning. I said, “I'm talking to Darlene today. I'm so excited about this.”
I give him all the credit for this. And we laugh about it all the time. Who would have thought? I never even dreamed of moving here. I had been working back and forth in New York for years singing backup for Dionne Warwick for 10 years. She lives in New Jersey, so I was used to New York, but I never wanted to live here. Working here is a whole other ball game.
You went to her house for Thanksgiving, and there was quite a cast of characters at the table, right?
Everybody who was on that show that night. we're at the Brooklyn Fox. The Four Seasons, Little Eva, The Shirelles, Jackie Wilson. I mean, we were there with the cream of the crop of the 60s. Dionne invited us all over to her house for Christmas dinner. So, that's what I came up with in New York. I guess I'm supposed to be here, and five or six years later, I moved to New York.
An all star collection of backup singers and on the forefront telling these stories, there'll be some holiday music, but there's so much other things in store because you pull from this life of yours and then you share it with the audience. Through song. Any highlights? Any things we can expect?
There are some surprises, but they have to come to the show to see it. Because you never know. I remember from my 80th birthday, Paul Shaffer was on my stage. I mean, it was amazing. It was like they came to the show and we had a jam. You never know who's going to end up being on the stage with me.
