When you think of Count Basie and the blues, your sense memory probably takes you to those sides with Joe Turner, Jimmy Rushing, Helen Humes or Joe Williams.
Today’s Count Basie Orchestra is still steeped in the blues. Trumpeter and Basie Orchestra leader Scotty Barnhart puts the band right in the middle of Now! with Basie Swings The Blues, a collaboration with some of today’s best bluesters, including Buddy Guy, Bobby Rush, Keb’ Mo’, Robert Cray, Shemekia Copeland, Bettye LaVette, George Benson, Ledisi, Charlie Musselwhite and Castro Coleman, aka “Mr. Sipp”, a Mississippi bluesman, who sings, plays and contributes a couple of his own tunes to the mix.
Recently, I had the pleasure to chat with Scotty Barnhart and Mr. Sipp about this recording, four years in the making, that brings together these legendary blues makers steeped in the spirit of Basie.
Listen to our conversation, above. Or watch our conversation, below.
Interview transcript:
Gary Walker: What an all -star cast you have put together for this recording. We're talking about playing the blues with special guests, including George Benson, Carmen Bradford, Mr. Sipp, Shemekia Copeland, Robert Cray, Jamie Davis and Buddy Guy. I'm not done yet. Charlton Johnson and Bettye LaVette, who has just re imagined Miss Nina Simone. She stops by for a tune. Lauren Mitchell, Keb’ Mo’, Charlie Musselwhite. You harmonica cats, you know that name. And Bobby Rush, who in his 80s is still swinging it like he's in his 20s. How did this project come together?
Scotty Barnhart: In a nutshell four years ago in 2019, Mr. Basie was inducted into the Blues Hall of Fame in Memphis, Tennessee by the Blues Foundation. I had to go there and get the award and make a thank you speech. While I was there, they asked me to be a presenter at the Blues Awards, which is like the Grammys for the blues. At the table I was sitting next to Bobby Rush. I was in the midst of all of these great blues musicians like Bernard Purdie and all of these people and it just hit me. I’m thinking, “You know what? We need to do an album with these musicians. There needs to be a blues album.” That's how it started. But the problem was, as I mentioned in the liner notes, there is no precedent for what we've just done. There was nowhere where I could go buy something and listen to it and say, “Oh, okay, we got to sound like that.” There was nothing that had been done like that before, so I kind of had it in my mind, but I needed a real concrete example of what it would sound like.
Fast forward another year. We were playing a private wedding reception for a very successful businessman at his home in Virginia. The only request that they had was to play “Fly Me to the Moon,” the Quincy Jones arrangement so they can dance their first dance. They loved that and when the dance was finished, the businessman comes to the stage and asks if he could sit in with the band. Now mind you, somebody comes and asks you that, it could mean one of two things. Either they can't play at all and they just want to show off in front of their friends. Or they can really play.
Since it was private, right at the start of COVID, with just 20 people in his family and us, I said, “Sure.” Nobody's got a camera, it's his house, that's not a problem. So, I said, “Sure, you can sit in.” When I said that, he said, “Oh man, that's great, because I just bought a 1962 Gibson.” Now I didn't know that was a $50,000 guitar. I had no idea. He goes to get his guitar I get the sound guy over so we could set him up. He comes back on stage and I said, “Well, what do you want to play?” He said, “Well, how about some blues?” I said, “Okay but what key?” He said, “It don't matter to me.”
Now, when he said, “It don't matter to me,” I thought, “Uh oh, something's about to happen, right?” I counted off the blues in the key of G, medium blues, and man, let me tell you, this cat started sounding like every blues guitarist I've ever heard rolled into one. Everybody. It was unbelievable. The people and the audience, they were screaming. The band started playing riffs. It was so electrifying, and at that moment, I knew exactly how it was supposed to sound. It was at that precise moment, I said, “Oh, this is it. This is what I've been hearing in my mind.” It finally came together. Fast forward another year, I got all these people to meet—the record label and sponsors—and we got the budget together, set the studio date, and there you go.
Persistence and, and a little divine intervention. This is a man that grew up in Atlanta, Georgia, went to the Ebenezer Baptist Church and who did his confirmation? None other than Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. As I say, there was some divine intervention and speaking of divinity, Mr. Sipp, you came out of the world of gospel, did you not?
Mr. Sipp: Yes, 26 years in professional gospel music.
The two are intertwined, are they not?
Mr. Sipp: Yes. I just did a workshop in Lugano, Switzerland, Sunday, talking about the marriage of blues and gospel. They're like first cousins, you know. Both of them tell the story. One tells a story about your baby and your hard times in your life and the other one tells a spiritual story about your relationship with the Almighty. So it's the same swing, same notes. Same groove.
It’s like you’ve got to look upstairs for divine intervention when you're drinking double and she's acting single.
Scotty Barnhart: When I first heard the Basie Orchestra, my first thought was, “Oh, I hear that in church every week.” Daddy King, we had four choirs and everything's Daddy King's personal choir. It's called the ML King Choir, but they use the Hammond B3 organ on the stage, not the big pipe organ. Once a month when they used the Hammond B3 organ when they sang, that was my favorite choir because the organist would be walking the bass lines with his left foot. When I heard Basie, I was like, “Oh, that's the same thing, man. It's the same sound.” So that's why I could connect with Basie like that when I was eight, nine years old, because I was hearing it already in church. This stuff is really connected.
It's always been there for a Jelly Roll Morton. Do you remember those first magnificent notes that Louis Armstrong played on the “West End Blues”? It's always been there. I was at a Modern Jazz Quartet concert one night and heard John Lewis reference an introduction to the blues. He said, “I discovered blues elements in 16th century fugue music.” People have had the blues since dirt, man. The opening track on this new recording, Mr. Sipp wrote the tune, “Let's Have a Good Time” and it's funny because it opens up with a Count Basie-like riff on the piano, just a couple of singular notes that say so much. Then you jump right in there and let's have a good time.
Mr. Sipp: Yes, indeed, man. One of my favorite tunes also is “This for the Blues.” A lot of times when you think blues, you think about sad times and things of that nature. I wanted to bring the joy side of the blues to the world. Let's have a good time. Just encourage people to let's come on. It's the weekend. Let's enjoy it. Let's dance it away. So exactly right.
Scotty Barnhart: As soon as I heard that track before we even recorded, I knew that would be the opening track for the album. I said, “Oh, we’re going to start with that.” And that's what we did. It sets the mood. It's just like you said, and Basie even said himself, “Our blues will make your blues go away.” It’s a positive affirmation of life. You don't have to always be sad when you listen to the blues. This album in particular will keep you up and dancing for the entire thing. It's a happy feeling. It's a happy sound. We got the right people like Mr. Sipp. That was the main thing for me, to get the right people.
You got them all. How long did it take you to put this all-star cast together that continues with Bobby Rush, for example, with “Boogie in the Dark.”
Scotty Barnhart: A few months working with John Burk at Candid records and Steve Jordan. I got John on board first and because he's produced our last several Basie albums. He and I were talking and we just sat down and made a list. Mr. Sipp was always on that list. George Benson, Buddy Guy. We had some people we didn't know if we could get them because of their schedule or if they were still recording but luckily we knew everybody. I simply just called up George Benson myself and said, “Hey man.” And he said, “Yeah, I'll do it.” Then Steve got Buddy Guy. Lauren Mitchell is a good friend of mine, and Charlie Musselwhite's a friend of John. Between the three of us, we were able to get it all settled, and it was just a matter of scheduling. But it was really an easy process. There were no major hurdles, no doors slammed that I faced. I have to say, the good thing about leading the Count Basie Orchestra, is when I call somebody, the answer's “Yes.” Because it's Basie, man. This ain't about me.
You got people coming back into the fold, like Carmen Bradford, who is/was a featured vocalist with the Basie band. She does an amazing soul stirring rendition of “Just for a Thrill.” Many times, and you know about this Mr. Sipp, the blues is a family affair. Shemekia Copeland is one of the special guests along with Charlie Musselwhite and Buddy Guy on “I'm a Woman.”
Scotty Barnhart: That was the perfect example of what we have been saying. The song-choosing process was one where I may have studied and listened to over 500 songs. I kept buying recordings, from Freddie King to Koko Taylor. I bought everything. Son House, you name it. I went through every track trying to make sure I would find something that would be a good balance for everybody to work with. When I got to “I'm a Woman,” that was a no brainer.
Every one of these tracks is just an amazing performance. I heard Wynton Marsalis recently talk about how jazz is America's classical music. And somebody said, “Well, how can you say that” And he says, “Take the horn section and let them play in unison—that's the string section.” That's how you have to understand that. When you've got the Count Basie Orchestra made up of five saxophones, four trombones, four trumpets, a rhythm section, and all these wonderful special guests, I'm telling you it's classical blues music like you will never, ever forget. Now I know it's going to be tough to get all these people together, but are there plans to take some of these folks on the road and into clubs?
Scotty Barnhart: You’re right, it's difficult. We're trying to figure out how to do that. We go to Japan on our next schedule but the album is out after about maybe three or four months. We're trying to look at some things for early next year and through the summer, we definitely are already planning that. We're trying to figure out how to do it. Cliff will be obviously one of those musicians. Bobby Rush, even George Benson, if we can find that we're going to be near him geographically.
I'm looking forward to a tune that you wrote called the “Patton Basie Shuffle” which reflects the imagination of what it would sound like if Charlie Patton and Count Basie had come together.
Scotty Barnhart: I went to visit the Dockery Plantation, where he lived and played in Mississippi. I was just thinking, “What would it have sounded like had this cat walked into a club and the Basie Orchestra and the rhythm section was already swinging. What would it have sounded like had he jumped on stage and started playing and put the horns behind him?” That tune is what I came up with. That just would have been unbelievable. The first door is already open to the stream that I have. So not all doors are closed. It's a crazy wild dream. But man, if it happens, it would be on. Me and my girlfriend were talking about it the other day. It'd be sick, man.
I'll tell you after listening, probably five, six, seven times, and I'm not done yet, it takes it down home. Mr. Sipp, we got another composition that you contributed to the mix here called “The Dirty Mississippi Blues.”
Mr. Sipp: It's in the water down here, man. It's in the water, that dirty Mississippi blues. I just want to thank the Count Basie Orchestra. This is a dream come true for me. A little country boy always desired to have some brass behind me and not only brass but this whole orchestra. Doing this and inviting me in to be a part of it, I’m blown away.
What does it feel like when you're standing up there or you're in the studio and you're surrounded by all these fantastic musicians and they’re making your music?
Mr. Sipp: It’s mind blowing. At the first rehearsal when they hit that opening line, I almost got shell shocked. I was like, “Dude, this is really happening in my life right now.” Like, really? I couldn't wait until the first break. I started calling home, calling my brother, calling my dad and said, “I'm playing with some home horns, rhythm section, it’s really happening.” My dad was like, “Well, that's what you talked about, right?” I was like, “I never thought it would happen.” So, I just really appreciate y'all for making a little country boy like me, making my dream come true. I'm blown away.
Scotty Barnhart: Look, this record wouldn't be what it is without you. You're the only artist that has two of his compositions on the record. You're the only one.
Mr. Sipp: That's mind blowing. I was like, wow.
Now, along with these originals that we're talking about, stuff that Scotty wrote, the stuff that Mr. Sipp wrote, there's some tunes that you can't walk into a studio and do a blues record, especially with the Count Basie Orchestra, without traveling to a Stormy Monday blues. They do that with one of my favorite ladies of all time who represents the influence of Detroit, Michigan—Miss Bettye LaVette who has lived about eight lives in her one life and manages to share it every time she sings a story.
Scotty Barnhart: Yeah, we worked with her at the Hollywood Bowl about a week or two before we did the recording. She's just a great musician, a great person, a great human being. She was just one of those musicians that completed the puzzle. She completed the sound that we needed and the perfect vehicle for her was “Stormy Monday.” We had thought about “Every Day I Sing the Blues,” but that had been recorded so much and it's on two of the recent albums prior to this one. We needed to find something else for her to sing and “Stormy Monday” was the perfect choice. She comes in and the band nails it.
Most of these things are all done in one take. Is that right?
Scotty Barnhart: Yeah, we rarely do more than two takes of anything. We had Andy Farber in New York put an arrangement around that and there you go. I'm just glad, I'm just so happy that we were able to get the musicians that we wanted who we knew would fit perfectly with how we play. We didn't get in each other's way. They did their thing, and we did our thing and the overall sound of it is what we wanted. When we were listening to the charts a few days later, I just couldn't believe what I was hearing.
When the call went out to George Benson who said, “Oh, yeah, I'll do it” and what's the tune you do? One of the very first tunes he ever did in his life on record with brother Jack McDuff, “Rock Candy.”
Scotty Barnhart: Exactly right. We were at George's house in Arizona about two weeks ago and we were hanging with him in his house. It’s just insane to be at this man's house. I was like, “What can I do to thank this guy?” He said, “Let me take you to lunch.” I said, “Okay.” So we went to lunch afterward he said, “Well, come on by the house.” We went by the house, man and what was funny about George leading up to the recording, at a certain point, the financing got kind of funny. We lost the sponsor. We had to figure out how to plug that hole.
He happened to call me right during that point when we were trying to figure out where to go for the financing. He was calling me from Vienne, France. He said, “Hey, man, are we still recording?” I couldn't believe this. This is George Benson calling me, asking me all these questions. He was so excited about it because he knew what it would sound like. I said, “Yeah, man, trust me. We're going to do it. We'll do it. I'll call you back when we get the dates.” A week or two later, we had it all set. The rest as they say is history. He came in and just was George Benson.
You mentioned plugging them holes. Frank Foster and I were really good friends and I had a chance to go to his home in Virginia and spend a week with he and Cecelia. He even referenced when I said, “So how's it going, man?” He said, “It’s going fine, man. But there's a lot of duct tape, keep everything together so when we walk out on that stage, It's just seamless.”
Scotty Barnhart: Frank hired me 30 years ago. He was like my second father. Just a special, special cat. In fact, Frank and Cecilia met each other when the Basie band was playing Birdland in New York - the old Birdland when Thad Jones was running things. Thad and Frank's wife are cousins so he was introducing her around to all the members of the band. She said, “Well, who's that cute guy over there with the saxophone?” And he said, “You don't want to meet him.”
What were you surprised by in the recording process?
Scotty Barnhart: To be honest, I was surprised at how smoothly everything went. When I get into the studio, I'm a no nonsense guy. I don't play around. I'm having fun, but I'm dead serious, and the cats know that, so when I say we're going to start at a certain time, we're starting on that minute. That keeps me focused so I can make sure we know what we're doing.
The other thing, I'm always thinking about the other guys. Is the person recording comfortable? Is everybody okay? Anybody need to use the restroom? I try to keep it loose. Since that happened, I was able to keep it smooth and with John Burk in the control room, I knew we wouldn’t need to do one or two takes.
I didn't hear anything that went crazy but that took planning. If you're getting the right arrangements, and the right timing on the arrangements, I took care of all of these little details before I got to the studio. So, when I got to the studio, it was just like, “Let's just start the tape rolling.” Start the tempo, get the right tempo, play to the end. If we need to do another, do another, and then move on. We got all that stuff done in two days. We got 12 tracks done in two days. It was just an easy thing. It wasn't hard. It was a family thing. I invited people to come over to hear us. I don't ever have a closed studio where you can't come into the studio. The music is for the people. Let people come out. I don't care if we have a thousand people in there. We would still record in the same way.
Sinatra and Cannonball Adderley many times made records and they required an audience to be in the room with them when they were recording.
Scotty Barnhart: That's why that music sounds so good. You’re feeding off the vibes of the people. It was a big party, man. We just had a great time and everybody loved it. Plus, it was new - we were all hearing it together for the first time. Back in the control room, we hear that thing back and it's like, “What?” I knew it could be good, but this just floored me. I was like, “Wow.” I knew it could be great, but it really is great. Whether or not I was involved in this project, if I would have heard this, I would have asked, “Who are you? What? Who did that?”
I can't stop listening to this. You've got one of my favorite singers who's actually sung with the Basie band in the past, from the West Coast, Jamie Davis. Next time when you do Volume Two of this, would you invite me to the studio? Because I'll come and bring all my friends and we'll have a good time.
Scotty Barnhart: Absolutely. the funny thing about Jamie, he was with us for about four or five years as our primary vocalist. I was trying to find a tune for him when I came across the Muddy Waters tune while I was doing it, “Look What You've Done.” The funny thing about that is that it’s a nine-bar blues, not eight, not 12. That's a nine-bar blues. Perfect for him. That's very interesting that it worked out the way it did.
This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
